I originally posted a 6 part parsed series which you can find here but then there was a little more back and forth discussion. Thus, this is the actual conclusion of my interaction with serpent seedline of Satan theorist Zen Garcia on the comment section to the video Lucifer Father Of Cain- The evil one's seed? Zen Garcia on NYSTV (Now You See TV).
Zen Garcia wrote:
Sharpen iron on iron lol if that was truly what we were doing I would welcome the fellowship. However you are not in any way receptive to examining my viewpoint or in truly answering my questions as I tried to answer yours. If we were at all sharing discourse which would be beneficial to the readers or listeners, I would have no problem at all in sharing discourse with you. But why try and discuss a topic with somebody that won’t do research in examining the material in the way that I present it? It’s all just a waste of time especially if all you are going to do is claim that you answered my questions and that you shared information which clarified your position in answer. I refute your claims as that is not at all what you have done. And as I don’t have time to waste in argument with you, I will simply just let the viewers listen to the information and decide for themselves.
However as I shared in replying above I’ll ask you simply once more: If the fruit was indeed an apple or some kind of fig or pomegranate as you believe, why would Adam and Eve cover their genitals and how would eating it result in her becoming pregnant with Cain? And how in any way could it result in their being enmity between the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent? Where does this seed of the serpent come from, the apple? Please explain since you claim that this does not in any way make any sense. What’s your explanation?
I have found that serpent seed of Satan theorists love to post supposedly mysterious questions which only their theory can answer. Thus, I replied:
Friend, you are right, this is not sharpen iron with iron because—as anyone within these comment sections can instantly see—you are so very obviously not reading answers to your endless gotcha questions. To date, I have posted circa 70 articles on the seedline theory including having one published in a Christian apologetics journal so that there is utterly no way you can claim I am not taking this issue seriously and not doing my research: http://www.truefreethinker.com/serpent-seed-satan
You ask 4 questions but you must understand that even if I have no answers or you subjectively conclude that your answers are better that still does not make the non-biblical serpent seedline of Satan theory correct.
1) “If the fruit was” a fruit as the Bible states, “why would Adam and Eve cover their genitals”
Genesis 2 notes that they were naked and not ashamed but once they ate from the “Tree of the Knowledge of” both “Good” and also “Evil” they recognized that there was good naked and evil naked and where thus ashamed before God as they were exposed.2) “how would eating it result in her becoming pregnant with Cain?”
I am not aware of anyone in history who claimed that eating it result in Eve becoming pregnant. Rather Genesis 4:1 tells you that it is Adam who impregnated Eve. This is such a clear fact that you insist on ignoring any and all ancient Hebrew, Greek, Syriac, etc. manuscripts and turn to the very late dated Targum Pseudo-Jonathan (circa 600 AD) which is saturated with Rabbinic folklore and still does not help you since it states that even though Eve desired Samael and Angel of death, it was Adam who impregnated her.3) “how in any way could it result in their being enmity between the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent?”
The greater context of the Bible is that there are two “lines” that are based on action and not on genetics (Jesus’ parables make this 100% clear, see here http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/serpent-seed-satan-article-christian-apologetics-journal). This is about those who take Godly actions versus those who take sinful/satanic actions. Thus, those who follow the serpent will be at enmity to those who follow the woman’s seed (and the serpent’s seed can always repent and be reckoned as the Godly seed by grace through faith by being born again).4) “Where does this seed of the serpent come from, the apple?”
I am not aware of anyone in history who claimed that the seed of the serpent come from that which the Bible never identified as an apple. God curses the serpent because of what he did which was to question God’s commands, deceived Eve and encouraging her to do that which God forbade.
Someone chimed in to note this to me:
John 8:39-42 further supports the argument against the serpent seed stuff. also what happened in Gen 6 has a consequence to the story. if Satan is the physical father of Cain why is he not currently suffering the penalty (see 2peter 2:4). genetics do come into play in the biblical narrative but not in the way some are claiming. the event in the garden is a spiritual and physical event but to claim the serpent seed narrative is reading something into the text. the reaction you've been getting in these comments is sad. I Iike hearing and discussing theories and ideas but like you've done in this case test to see if it is true or false. if you're called lost or whatever for standing for the truth... take a moment to praise the most high. Zen I disagree with you but in love, so in love I've pointed out a few issues with your theory.
I replied:
Thank you for your kind and encouraging words.
Indeed, the Nephilim were half Angel and half human and God drowned them. However, Cain is supposed to be half Satanic and half human and God curses him, sure, but also protects him with a mark. In fact, initially God speaks to Cain about his actions, “if thou doest well…if thou doest not well…”
Starting in Aug. I will post a series of articles about Bob Schlenker who is about as extreme a serpent seed theorists as I have ever read. He claims that Satan, Adam and Eve had an orgy, that Satan and Adam engaged in sodomy and oral sex and, oh yeah, that this was revealed to him by God!!!
By now I have posted that series which you can find under Bob Schlenker. He, by the way, is, well, a bit blunt about his view and he wrote, “If there were another legitimate way to interpret the scene in the garden that wasn't a sex orgy version, I'd like that very much.”
Zen Garcia then wrote:
It seems that you made it a fulltime job to slander me Ken. Again I am just going to say that people can research and for themselves and decide for themselves whether the information is truth for them or not. There are many others that have been lead to similar discernment as me. I share all of that body of work and interviews of time with them on youtube channel. They are there to freely peruse should you be really interested in the material. As far as the Targums, the main ones and the ones that I quote from date back to the return of the Israelites from their Babylonian first century CE. Yes they were translated into English in 1863 but they were first transcribed into aramaic from the original Hebrew Torah when the Israelites return to their land began worship service again. They are 1500 years older than the King James version of the bible. And if anybody wants to look this up yourself, just key word search Targum.
My reply, which ended the discussion, was:
Friend, in short, you seem to keep presupposing that those who disagree with you are not “really interested in the material” have not really studied the subject, etc. However, speaking for myself: I do not reject the serpent seed theory (and much else that you teach) because I am not “really interested in the material” but because I am “really interested in the material” and have written 48 articles about it from many different angles and considering the teachings of many different proponents of it.
As to the Targumim: this is one of the reasons that certain people have to keep cleaning up after you—assisting those whom you misinform, who do not known any better and who actually believe you. You and I know very, very well that when it comes to Genesis 4:1 in particular you are referring to the one of the Targumim which dates to more than half a millennia after Jesus and you do not get to get away from this fact just because other Targumim date from BC. I also have no idea why you mention the KJV except that you seem to think that anyone who disagrees with you is solely relying on the KJV which, as I have already told you, I do not. I have also told you that the Targumim contain much interpretation based on Rabbinic folklore and that they contain much with which you would surely disagree. And, of course, even if the one you quote was the earliest one ever it would still not mean that it is the original text.
Now, if anybody wants to look this up yourself, do not listen to Zen and just key word search “Targum” but key word search “Targum of Palestine” aka “Targum of Jonathan Ben Uzziel” aka “Targum Pseudo-Jonathan.”
And that, at least for now, is that.
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